For me, I found Bupropion slightly effective, and Dextroamphetamine very effective for my depression.
I had severe depression during Covid, manifesting as involuntary and passive suicidal ideation. Basically a hours long whirlpool of daydreaming about dying in some way, because it was the only thing which brought comfort to what I would best describe as a sort of mental agony, but without pain. Just the constant need to escape existing. Passive meaning at no point was I actively intending to act on it, but obviously this was not something to be allowed to continue.
The depression basically severely reduced my ability to mitigate my ADHD symptoms, causing them to become very apparent, essentially being co-morbid with each other. With that context, I first did some non-stimulant preliminary alternatives like:
* Bupropion HCL. This provided partial mitigation of the depression. Basically it was manageable and not threatening to implode my ability to do basic life tasks. No effect on my ADHD.
* And Atomoxetine (Strattera) which within the week had brought back my involuntary hours long daydreams of dying, and really fucked up my dick/physical and mental sexual response, which lingered for a few months after despite quickly ending treatment. As a male, I severely underestimated how much having a healthy sexual response contributes to overall wellbeing.
After that I tried extended release Dextroamphetamine.
The very first day, I wasn’t what I would consider euphoric, but I had a distinct calm sort of sense of wellbeing that was very much in contrast to the previous several months. Basically I could actually start to feel that things could be better, rather than trying to brute force reason while suffering. I liken it to what you feel when the pain from when you stub your toe fades, and you have some minor lingering endorphins.
After that first day, I didn’t feel anything else directly connected to taking the pill after that. I’d typically forget if I already took the pills 2-3 times a week (meaning skip the dose).
All I could notice after resuming after skipping a day, was being slightly more chatty, and feeling like I was slightly worse at driving. The few times I probably doubled up, I’d feel this sort of mild head pressure.
But the overall effect of Dextroamphetamine within 3 days was the complete elimination of my passive ideation. Intrusive thoughts are like flies, they land on everyone, but healthy people can brush them away. I still had to take care not to voluntarily sustain negative thoughts, but it was actually voluntary now.
I later moved to Lisdexamfetamine ER because the supply of dex at the time was severely constrained, but it was basically identical. Supposedly less addictive/abusable too, though for me either felt as addictive as a collagen supplement.
After a few months, I had the dose lowered, and several months later, I halted taking stimulants. They didn’t really do much for my ADHD symptoms, and I felt that whatever had triggered my depression had cleared up so I could manually deal with the symptoms like I always have.
So that left some mild side effects of slight head pressure, probably being a slightly worse driver, probably being a slight detriment to my sleep, and possibly increasing jaw clenching (I now have a fitted nightguard), so I had zero reason to continue.
But it’s very reassuring that if I get another severe depression episode for some reason, I now have a first response tool I can use.
> The depression basically severely reduced my ability to mitigate my ADHD symptoms, causing them to become very apparent, essentially being co-morbid with each other.
I had this experience as well; in particular it really impacted my ability to work/keep a job. The added stress in turn worsened my depression, etc.
Fortunately, I was able to take almost half a year off and focus on stabilizing/recovering without further damaging my career or economic status. Many people are not so fortunate.
I'm sure you know Bupropion doesn't affect seratonin, its a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor.
As someone who also doesn't seem to respond much to seratonin related meds, Burproprion worked somewhat but I suffer from increased insomnia as a side effect. I actually respond better to things mostly affecting GABA and NMDA rather than the 'classic' anti-depressents.
That said I was trialled on methylphenidate and all it did was make me procrastinate waaaay faster, so personally I'm avoiding any stimulants stronger than caffeine.
I had similar insomnia issues with bupropion (which was otherwise greatly superior to SSRIs for me) until I started taking it immediately before going to sleep. I slept slightly shorter than usual, but woke up feeling great and had no issues getting to sleep.
bupropion does...a lot of things (including mildly doing what dextroamphetamine does...). A lot of these drugs don't just hit one receptor type...(don't get a pharmd started on receptor affinity binding profiles...)
Fair call. So much of this stuff is simplified for us laypeople, but yeah - when you look up what so-and-so molecule does and find out how many different binding sites it interacts with as an agonist/antagonist/catlyst (and sometimes they've only measured interactions in rats) you realise there's a heck of a lot of stuff going on.
I also got slightly weirded out when I found out something I was taking interacted with the mu-opiod receptors even though it wasn't an opiate.
Yeah, we have all these nice labels for all sorts of things, which makes it sound like everything is figured out, but this is definitely very far from the truth and complexity.
Bupropion is a noradrenaline and dopamine reuptake inhibitor, and a nicotinic receptor antagonist. You issues with sleep or probably due to the noradrenergic effect.
I had severe depression during Covid, manifesting as involuntary and passive suicidal ideation. Basically a hours long whirlpool of daydreaming about dying in some way, because it was the only thing which brought comfort to what I would best describe as a sort of mental agony, but without pain. Just the constant need to escape existing. Passive meaning at no point was I actively intending to act on it, but obviously this was not something to be allowed to continue.
The depression basically severely reduced my ability to mitigate my ADHD symptoms, causing them to become very apparent, essentially being co-morbid with each other. With that context, I first did some non-stimulant preliminary alternatives like:
* Bupropion HCL. This provided partial mitigation of the depression. Basically it was manageable and not threatening to implode my ability to do basic life tasks. No effect on my ADHD.
* And Atomoxetine (Strattera) which within the week had brought back my involuntary hours long daydreams of dying, and really fucked up my dick/physical and mental sexual response, which lingered for a few months after despite quickly ending treatment. As a male, I severely underestimated how much having a healthy sexual response contributes to overall wellbeing.
After that I tried extended release Dextroamphetamine.
The very first day, I wasn’t what I would consider euphoric, but I had a distinct calm sort of sense of wellbeing that was very much in contrast to the previous several months. Basically I could actually start to feel that things could be better, rather than trying to brute force reason while suffering. I liken it to what you feel when the pain from when you stub your toe fades, and you have some minor lingering endorphins.
After that first day, I didn’t feel anything else directly connected to taking the pill after that. I’d typically forget if I already took the pills 2-3 times a week (meaning skip the dose). All I could notice after resuming after skipping a day, was being slightly more chatty, and feeling like I was slightly worse at driving. The few times I probably doubled up, I’d feel this sort of mild head pressure.
But the overall effect of Dextroamphetamine within 3 days was the complete elimination of my passive ideation. Intrusive thoughts are like flies, they land on everyone, but healthy people can brush them away. I still had to take care not to voluntarily sustain negative thoughts, but it was actually voluntary now.
I later moved to Lisdexamfetamine ER because the supply of dex at the time was severely constrained, but it was basically identical. Supposedly less addictive/abusable too, though for me either felt as addictive as a collagen supplement.
After a few months, I had the dose lowered, and several months later, I halted taking stimulants. They didn’t really do much for my ADHD symptoms, and I felt that whatever had triggered my depression had cleared up so I could manually deal with the symptoms like I always have.
So that left some mild side effects of slight head pressure, probably being a slightly worse driver, probably being a slight detriment to my sleep, and possibly increasing jaw clenching (I now have a fitted nightguard), so I had zero reason to continue.
But it’s very reassuring that if I get another severe depression episode for some reason, I now have a first response tool I can use.